They have long since shut down, so I doubt I can really find proof, but one was 3 years ago that I can't remember the name of, it used code that predated the gooncode though. The other one was more recent, run by someone named Conco I think? The first time I left because I wasn't happy with the direction the server was going, the owner took themselves far too seriously and was taking advantage of their position. The second, it ended up shutting down out of the blue, I think there was some strife between the owner and a head admin. As I said though, its been a few years since these happened, and a lot has happened in my life, spessmen games were a pretty small portion of my memory. Sorry I can't provide any better information.