Upcoming rule rewrite, Administrator Code of Conduct and 'FAQ'

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Taicho, Sep 9, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. General_Battier

    General_Battier LS13 Admin

    Kind of hard to change how people act about there laws, but there is always that one ai that even finds loop holes with Asimov :eek:
  2. daddysds1

    daddysds1 Well-Known Member

    I don't mind if Ai's find loopholes ( If they take all that time to find one good for them).

    I do have issues with Ai's that Lock down Heavly used area's *cough* Chem,engi,Toxin test,ect *cough* because there being dicks.

    Same with Ai's that get Defend station , other moudles. And go OMG HE BROKE A WINDOW MURDER HE.
    QuantumWings likes this.
  3. IMVader

    IMVader Well-Known Member

    This is why we need a custom silicon policy.

    And this is why we need re-writing of some lawsets. There shouldn't EXIST a loophole (if you can call that a loophole) in a easily available module (not high-risk) like that.
  4. CruelPat

    CruelPat BANNED

    • Rule #1.) Players are to remain in character at all times in regards to violent altercations and other player-to-player interactions. Murder, abduction, or status alteration (inducing long-term mental/physical disabilities) are unacceptable without a convincing IC (In Character) or RP (Roleplay) reason to do so.
    Abduction happen way too often without a convincing IC reason to do it. Most people reason are just, he is shit and I’m getting rid of him so he can’t arrest me.And then it will be deemed an IC issue.
    The rule should also specify the usage of force feeding or force injecting mind breaker toxins to someone, since the recent buff of mind breaker toxins it can ruin someone round badly for quite a large amount of time. Or giving them negative effect virus which greatly affect someone round.
    • Rule #2.) Out of Character (OOC) chat is a peaceful environment that expects the following behavior from its participants: Do not state In-Character events in OOC. Be considerate of the feelings of others. Abusing people, being a jerk towards others, inciting flame-wars, and general harassment is unacceptable.
    This rule could be elaborate as many people do not understand what IC in OOC is and what is not. Examples could be given to simplify the rule.

    Rule #4.1) Self defense is acceptable, but the amount of force used should be in proportion to the threat to your life. (I.E., if someone throws a PDA at you and whacks you in the head you might push them or hit them a few times in retaliation, but you wouldn't murder someone for it. If a crewmember hits you in the head with a deadly weapon and seems persistent to continue attacking you then it is only logical that you would use more force. Combat has stages of progression. Do not use more force than what is needed to defend yourself or it will not be considered defending.

    This is the rule I have the most trouble with it and many others I suppose. Sometimes you need to use more force than you are needed to because you got no way to restraint the person and he keeps attacking you and if you don’t you will wind up dead. But when you go to heal them you are still ahelped about why you sent the person to critical even too you are nearly dead and healing the person from their damage expecting them to have learned to stop hitting you. This happened to me on several case where just to not get on trouble when someone would bash me. I would let them kill me so I do not get in trouble, ahelp, and then wait, and be out of the round for the remaining time left which is quite annoying.

    Rule #4.4) Officers are to be in accordance with LLA's version of Space Law when handling criminals. Space Law and the Server Rules are two separate entities. The first is an IC game mechanic and the second is our definition of what is allowed IC and OOC.

    This is another big problem of mine as a security officer. When following space law, you are mostly a-helped by admins when one prisoner doesn’t agree with his sentence (which happen in 75% of the time) you then have to explain to the admins why you have brig the person, this is quite annoying since you can put the crimes on the cell timer and shouldn’t have to bother responding to those questions. I suggest that a same pattern be applied to perma where you can have a list of the criminals inside stating their crimes.
    • Rule #5.) Security and the Heads of Staff are positions of authority with larger responsibilities and expectations. When playing as a position of authority you are especially accountable for your actions and the safety of the crew as the job relates.
    This rule is one where I agree with and wish it would be enforced because it clearly is not. How many times do you see the HoP wandering around in fake traitor stuff trying to pull pranks and never going to his office or the CE going space exploring? I also wish if there was some way to bring back the heads time lock so that way new players could learn the basic of the game, adapt themselves with the rules and the server and then play heads and cause way less chaos than what happens when most new players jump into a head role and just get lynched.
    The AI should also be added to this rule as the AI also possess quite a large responsibilities and can mess people badly. There is also the trend I have noticed lately were people upload laws such as entering the minisat makes them non-human and to terminate them which should be addressed in the rules.
    The new virology for me has bought a great problem since security is always overwhelmed by people breaking in the armory for the guns instead of setting up the engine or other matters. Virology can now create super virus which switch the person to hulk, and then here comes the fun where you have a bunch of hulk bashing the brig for no reason and just tearing every wall off. Is there any way to stop this from happening, especially when the virologist isn’t an antagonist and just give the virus to everyone and you have no way to stop them.
    Also as Flath said a rule should be implemented to deal with people who falsely accuse people. The other day I was yelled to be a changeling by a crewmember for getting up too quick of his energy gun shots. I was then cremated by the crew because they believed the captain who was not an antagonist but claimed I was. This ruined my whole round for no reason. The same happened yesterday when the captain flushed the disk in cargo and I picked it up and said he had flushed the disk, he came to beat me claiming I was evil.

    Now onto admins part:

    For the most part I feel like admins are doing a good job. What I would like from admins is better communication as a whole. Most time I a-help, I have no feedback from the case after the round end not knowing if it was dealt with and have to a-help multiple time to get an answer to say it was dealt with.
  5. daddysds1

    daddysds1 Well-Known Member

    OH by loopholes i mean Custom made laws where the antang fucks up. Aka when they go and put X is non human and they say kill all non humans. Then thats a loophole and they are fucked end of story.
  6. Raptorblaze

    Raptorblaze Head Coder Staff Member

    My favorite one fuck up is:
    >Give AI one human law
    >Subesequently give AI antimov lawset
    QuantumWings and daddysds1 like this.
  7. Jester5093

    Jester5093 Member

    I'm new, so obviously my opinion doesn't matter. I just got into SS13 last week, a buddy of mine has been trying to get me into it for months. I started here. Learned my first role here, yay janitor. Had some crazy fun rounds. And some really really unfun rounds. Over the last 3 days, 80% of the rounds I've been in have been so badly griefed that it wasn't even worth it. Just earlier I came on to literally EVERYONE running around 11 minutes into the round being put into coffins and spaced etc.

    There was 1 admin on. 1 security person, who couldn't do anything. And everyone else cheering them on. Cause it's ThunderDomeStation. Anyway, just wanted to say that enforcement needs to go hand in hand, and I'm not sure just a rewrite will help. There ARE current rules. They seemed pretty clear to me. Do your job. Have IC and RP reasons for doing things. Don't "go nuts" and claim that is IC reasons for things. Use proper force. A guy slips, proper response is not to weld him into a coffin.

    Anyway, as I was told in game, I just suck and need to go learn to play anyway, so I guess I'll go learn to play on another station for the time being.
  8. Wrong. Your comment was cogent regardless of how long you've been around. And I'm sorry people were discouraging/dicks in game.
  9. daddysds1

    daddysds1 Well-Known Member

    Have grifers kill the grifers.

    Issue = Sloved.

    Back on topic.

    Aint like half the admin team resigned Or atleast most of them i only really see crow/cactus/a couple others Really get on.
  10. kadingir

    kadingir The Guide

    Currently it seems like there is a lot of grief that is not considered grief, i do not know if this is merely because the rules are unclear, or if it is because people like grief, but anyway the grief that i am focused on now is monkeys, shades, and guys wearing nuke ops gear being able to be killed by anyone even if they confirm that they were turned into a monkey by a geneticist, turned into a shade by the chaplain, or looted a nuke op.

    To me killing someone who has proven themselves to not be in a certain form due to being an antag but rather to be in that form due to legit non antag game play is a clear OOC intent to wreak someone else's round as they have no IC reason to kill that person.
    CruelPat likes this.
  11. If you are going to brazenly make use of antag items you have to be willing to accept the consequences of what happens when you are mistaken for an antag. I agree with you in the event of "proof" being presented and a kill occurring regardless, but there is an implied risk to what you are talking about and players should not be punished for killing people on sight if they are decked out in full antag gear.
    QuantumWings likes this.
  12. Raptorblaze

    Raptorblaze Head Coder Staff Member

    Monkeys - If you monkey yourself, that's your own fault and you should be aware of the consequences. If you were monkeyed by someone else, that's an admin issue (unless they are an antagonist).
    Shades - Only due to the current map are shades able to be non-antags, so I can understand some people's reactions. If you are shaded by a non-antagonist, you are not an antagonist either. This is usually resolved by a little information about the map.
    Openly/Brazenly wearing syndicate gear - If a nuke ops is actively attacking the station, and you don Nuke Ops gear and start running around, I do not see an issue with people killing you for it. Use caution before brazenly using syndicate gear.
  13. Cody522

    Cody522 Well-Known Member

    I see some problems here. I've always seen it that being killed for being a monkey is a bad thing. Unless it's a changeling round, then that's bad judgement just like the nuke op gear. But of course that's one of the many unofficial policies being juggled around. That bound to change from person to person.

    If your owner told you as a shade to kill a guy, then you have to do it. It's the same as AIs getting antag laws.
  14. kadingir

    kadingir The Guide

    That is why i said nuke ops gear rather than just saying antag items in general.

    So you are saying that if you tell everyone over comms that you are going to turn yourself into a monkey and you then get killed by someone who knows that you turned yourself into a monkey using genetics that it is fine, i know the rules currently make it so that it is fine, but how do you justify continuing to allow people to do that? I am interested in having logical explanations given rather than just being told it is in the rules so it is okay.

    I know this, it is not an issue.

    Thanks for clearing this up, this is to be learned from, a map changing can mean that rules need to be modified.

    I fully agree, but in the case of say having full nuke ops gear on without the helmet or mask so that your name shows up AND telling people over comms and in person that you just looted a nuke op i believe that they should not be killed, i don't know if the rules currently already work like that or not but they should and it needs to be made clear.

    Indeed but until they get given that order they are not antagonistic, you reminded me of golems and not being allowed to harm humans though, maybe in addition to making the rule about golems and human harm clearer we should stop shades that were created by a non cultist also not be allowed to harm humans, after all they can see the cultist icon on cultists can't they?
  15. daddysds1

    daddysds1 Well-Known Member


    Replace the rule that says it's not grief if your useing traitor gear.

    Was a awsome ass rule and there was less bitching cause people knew they would get there shit beat in.

    Plus traitor gear should be spaced/R&D/Secured when it is looted. Not used because Power game.
  16. kadingir

    kadingir The Guide

    Should we as a community not strive to better ourselves? sure that rule made it completely clear that using antag items would get you killed, but killing people solely because "Hur dur that guy has looted tator items that i want so i will kill him!" is about as griefy as it gets, if you have a rule about not griefing and allow people to get away with griefing anyway what is the point of the rule?
  17. daddysds1

    daddysds1 Well-Known Member

    I don't kill them personaly inless there being stupid.

    Now there are people that that will do it just because.

    I'm saying to replace the rule because honestly if you pick up traitor items theres a 50 50 Chance your gonna get shat on.

    Hell half the time people get traitor items they use them to grief or be dicks more.
  18. Raptorblaze

    Raptorblaze Head Coder Staff Member

    Because announcing something over the comms does not ensure people are aware of it and monkeys are normally not human. I would not expect a player to take measures to ensure a monkey is not human or a changeling any more than I would expect them to do the same for a Human turned full slime. The line is when it is reasonable for the player to assume you are not a normal human. Just as when you brazenly wear nuke ops armor, players cannot be faulted for assuming that you are what you fully appear to be, a monkey.
  19. kadingir

    kadingir The Guide

    There is a big difference between assuming that a monkey is infact and monkey and knowing that a player slime is a player slime because they are talking and using vents, player monkeys also use vents and move around a lot more when they are players, you are confusing me raptor, are you meaning that people are allowed to kill all of these monkeys/slimes/shades/people wearing nuke ops gear simply because they don't know that these monkeys/slimes/shades/people wearing nuke ops gear are in fact non antagonistic? If you are saying that then i don't think you understand what i have posted so far.
  20. Raptorblaze

    Raptorblaze Head Coder Staff Member

    No, I'm saying that it is completely reasonable for people to assume such creatures/players are antagonists or plain animals in most situations. We also just have a standing rule that monkeys are free game unless Connor decides to change that.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page