Thread locked in Discussion

Discussion in 'General' started by IMVader, Apr 16, 2015.

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  1. IMVader

    IMVader Well-Known Member

    Following the recommendation from the forum guard regarding where to post on a specific subject I opened a thread in this very sub-forum (Discussion, unless it's moved):

    On his second post in the thread, however, he had a change of heart and deemed the allowed channel to be private messages, and kindly locked it preventing the rest of us non-forum-guards from replying.

    I'd like some community feedback on what I perceive to be some quite liberal use of features such as preventive post deletions, locking threads, opening threads to talk about what was not supposed to arise (though under different terms), and designating changing instances for messages to go through.

    Disclaimer: This is not an abuse report. This is about what the community feels the forum management should be (and the case in question serves as a comparison point). Maybe I'm wrong, and I am not against reviewing my stance.
  2. I, of course, believe that the forums are too heavily moderated in a number of respects. Specifically, I believe that forum guards are way too narrow and capricious about what constitutes an "on topic" post, and are very officious in deleting posts that actually are direct responses to existing, "on topic" posts in threads. Essentially, people are able to write inaccurate or controversial things, and people aren't allowed to politely correct or challenge them.

    I've told Cactus this directly, so I'll just say it here; he's the worst offender where this is concerned and is very pedantic in his approach to forum moderation.
  3. Flavo

    Flavo Well-Known Member

    The thread "Deleted post in Tales" was made to ask jariah about clarification about a certain post in the tales thread, Jariah had responded to you in a profile post conversation and clarified the issue as where the thread derailed into a topic of forum moderation (much like this one) and there for probably should of needed another thread instead of derailing the thread. as such a new thread was made for that subject while the old one was locked.

    I hope this doesn't become a trend of "thread X in Y" dank maymays
  4. Raptorblaze

    Raptorblaze Head Coder Staff Member

    Gonna keep an eye on this thread since I just applied for Forum Guard as well.
  5. Flavo

    Flavo Well-Known Member

    I should mention, due to the fact that most of the threads I've locked/removed comments from took place in appeal/ban requests/abuse reports, that it is practice to remove unrelated/derailing comments specifically in ban appeals

    for example

    Joesmow ban appeal

    OP: "HI i would like to be unbanned for bombing as a non-antag"
    Admin: "Youl hear back in 3 days"
    A: "This was bad, i was a witness the bombing gibbed me"
    B: "I was there for this round, i was the cargo tech. he did do the bomb from what i saw"
    C: " oh A, you were the cargo tech? your cargo play was sub par" [Removed]

    This is to keep appeals/reports short and to the point so the handling admin/headmin can read through it without going through 2 pages of pointless unrelated debate about space law interpretations rather then the OP's appeal and reasons why he should/shouldn't be lifted posted by community members. One of the reasons the peanut gallery was made in the first place was to keep the appeals clean of this. However this shouldn't apply to other threads and its much lighter outside the reports, most of these "Deletes and locks" come from posts that took place in appeals, if you don't really like this well consider the other side being REALLY LONG INTERPRETATION DEBATES INSIDE APPEALS.

    As for locks and deletes on "Tales" posts. I've removed comments on peoples bios that solely existed to insult/flame the player for whatever reason. unrelated debates inside tales where it really doesn't belong, my judgement in removing said comments comes from the broken window theory. That being if you see a window you are likely not to throw a brick at it but if you see a broken one it might be more acceptable to do it because others have done it. and the end result is a more damaged window. Keeping the comments may result in more comments and a derail/debate about some space law issue or something causing the OP's hard work post to get locked and disregarded. No it wont be about the OPs ability to stealth traitor that round, itl be the thread that was about what grand theft is.

    I hope this clarifies a bit on my thought process behind my locks and removals.
    AncientV25 likes this.
  6. WellingtonTheThird

    WellingtonTheThird Well-Known Member

    So far the posts I've reviewed that have been moved, deleted, or locked have been off-topic, flamebait, and flaming barring your last discussion thread. I've spoke to Cactus about it and informed him that he should've stood by letting you make it and simply cleaned up any issues instead of locking it. To my knowledge, and correct me if I'm wrong, the concerns you had with Jariah's comment were addressed and that was wrapped up.

    We're striving for a friendlier and more organized OOC environment.

    I assume you already know what we look for when we're moderating the forums, but to clarify for those that don't:

    We'll be deleting or moving the following posts as necessary.

    Sometimes Forum Guards must act preemptively to spare a thread from derailment.

    • Flaming - Verbally attacking another person, entity, etc.
    • Flamebaiting - Provocative posts that will lead to a verbal hostilities.
    • Off-topic - Posting with irrelevant information that may derail a thread. (E.g., simply responding to someone's post with "lol" or commenting your opinions on the presented facts. This mostly just applies to Abuse Reports/Adminless Incidents/Unban Appeals, etc.

    If you have an issue with a Forum Guard's behavior or you feel they were out of line feel free to contact Me, Psycho, DZ, Connor, or Lone via the forums and we'll try to resolve the issue and correct behavior where it needs correcting.
  7. IMVader

    IMVader Well-Known Member

    Thank you. Always nice to have concrete answers to work with.
  8. Wellington, the problem right now is definitely with how liberally posts are deemed to be "off-topic." Specifically by Cactus.

    If replies aren't extremely stilted and narrow in scope, and rigidly and robotically only directly addressing specific points in the OP, there are deletions, annoying condescending and lecturing PMs, and thread locks. Conversations are being prevented from developing organically, and from addressing new points that are raised that are tangentially related to the topic at hand. Sometimes discussing one issue raises legitimate points or questions about another.

    I see absolutely no reason the forum guards need be so intrusive. And you seem to have given forum guards carte blanche to interpret what is "flamebaiting" or "off-topic" in ridiculously overly broad ways, so I'm personally not convinced that PMing you over these things would accomplish anything.
    QuantumWings and IMVader like this.
  9. Snow5445

    Snow5445 Guest

    I gotta agree with flat here. Mainly because me and you worked to fix THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM!!! ARRR
    QuantumWings and Flatoftheblade like this.
  10. Obadiah Mayland

    Obadiah Mayland Well-Known Member

    To put in my two cents, I do believe the posts have been regulated quite hard as of recent. If I could make a kind reccomendation, couldn't the forum guards politely ask, or pm the derailer BEFORE locking it? or even give a warning on the thread for people to get it on track before locking it?
    ALSO! Flat of the blade and Cactus remind me of colonial american congress
    (Kinda like this)
  11. WellingtonTheThird

    WellingtonTheThird Well-Known Member

    This is a shame, really.

    I'd hope that community members would have faith in us, but beyond faith there is the evidence from time and time again where many of you have PM'd me or another staff member with issues and we've taken the time to see that they were properly addressed.

    If you're truly so convinced that messaging one of us would meet with no results then I'm afraid it will only serve to hurt you and your community by extension.

    Perhaps it will restore faith to know that Psycho has coached Flavo over the loose interpretation of the true purpose of the Forum Guards in my outline. As I stated in the outline our primary concern with blasting off-topic discussion and natural organic progression of conversation is mainly within the Administrator section where it only serves to take away from an administrator's ability to swiftly handle the issues. Elsewhere the permission to use the powers are allowed, but only as necessary.

    We've had many complaints in the past couple of days and we've given them serious attention and we're addressing the issues. We thank those that have taken the time to inform us of these problems and we were not blind to how apparently unnecessary deletion of certain "Off-topic" (As well as some locking, moving, etc.) posts were whenever it was mere evolution of discussion.

    If there are any more issues within the future we ask that you do not lose hope so easily and continue to inform us so we can correct the issues instead of letting them fester.

    Ahbahl likes this.
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