The same old Song and dance (Murderboning and You)

Discussion in 'General' started by Jariahtoadsage, Mar 22, 2015.

  1. Jariahtoadsage

    Jariahtoadsage LS13 Admin

    Alright folks, i know this tree has been barked up before, and in previous times it was frowned upon pretty communally by everyone. But recently ive been seeing people getting more and more hostile about the subject, and on top of that, ive seen antags taking its use up and up the tiers.

    What topic?

    Murderboning, Or the indiscriminate killing of massive amounts of crew for little to no reason.

    Now, at the beginning of this, when i was still angry about it, i thought "Fuck it, ill suggest putting Kill limiter rules into place." But after taking a few minutes to mull it over i realized neither Me nor the community i'm a part of are going to be taking this to are going to accept this. And why? Because this is LIBERTY station, and hence, removing freedom from antags isnt what the community is gonna support.

    So what else is there? Coders are busy producing content for our community, so a game mechanic could work, but would likely take some time to cobble together, because as i understand it the coders have a pretty constant stream of things going on.

    Some people in the past have suggested a carryover system wherein kills outside your target that are caused directly by you would negatively affect your next traitor/wizard/antag round. But then there would still be the issue of "Well ill just plasma flood, None of that is 'Directly' me!" As well as the question of "HOW would it affect you in the future?"

    We could go about the process of perhaps removing objectives like "Escape alone" as they encourage that sort of behavior, But thats just another form of freedom stripping right?

    My personal suggestion is to find a way to encourage creativity on the server, in the past people have responded at least OKAY to a murderboner if their methodology is entertaining enough to stick around to spectate. But even then the server population suffers as a whole almost as a rule if there are murderboners running about. And while most of our regulars will simply take a break if they're killed by such an occurrence, ive seen some potentially constructive new players to our server do a 180 and leave when they're confronted with this situation.

    Now, im not the most creative person, and ill be the first to admit it. It takes me a good long time sitting and thinking before i can come up with even the scratch of an idea for things of this nature. Which is why when i play traitor or ANY sort of antag i try to stay quiet about it. Because even know i feel like i COULD competently hold my own running through the station with a dual-esword, hyperzine, and an egun, it would only serve to make a name for me and my characters as aggravating murderboners.

    So im simply starting a thread to get some feedback from our regulars, and the people active on our forums.

    Do you feel this issue is something that should be looked into more aggressively?

    Do you feel that this issue could be the cause, in part, of our recent slump in players?

    Do you have ideas you want considered on the subject?

    In the past our community has come up with some pretty great ideas to better our server without stripping liberties from the denizens of liberty station. I hope that, should we decide this issue needs to be tackled, we can come up with a creative and communally (Ar at least MOSTLY) agreed upon method for doing so!
  2. Jariahtoadsage

    Jariahtoadsage LS13 Admin

  3. Mindtrixx

    Mindtrixx Well-Known Member

    I don't feel this really is a problem.


    Murderboning has been pretty consistent since forever, so no not really.

    Not really, but thanks for asking.
    Jariahtoadsage likes this.
  4. Jariahtoadsage

    Jariahtoadsage LS13 Admin

    Cool, thanks for the feedback.
    Mindtrixx likes this.
  5. ProbablyBaron

    ProbablyBaron BANNED

    Murderboning is so extremely unfun because half the people who do it just delay the shuttle call for so long that I could watch the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy and still have time to spin chairs as a ghost.

    Pls auto-shuttle call when crew total percentage reaches critical thresholds.
  6. From an administrative capacity? No.

    I dislike murderbonering. I dislike murderbonerers. But I dislike rule restrictions of this nature more.

    I honestly don't know what you are referring to. We have less murderbonering and more players than we did months ago.

    Edit to Perseus SOPs that mandates they board in the event of obvious murderbonering traitors or lings, with missions to detain the individuals in question, regardless of the opinions of the crew. There are a few regular command players that just don't like Perseus and oppose them boarding under any circumstances, but in most cases of blatant murderbonering antags, command staff are either out to lunch, new to the server and unaware of the existence of Perseus or how to activate them, or some combination of deceased/braindead without the enforcers being aware. Trying to get a dialogue going with the crew is a waste of time while people are actively being murdered, and often ends with "just a reminder, Perseus services are still available" spoken over a command channel that nobody will hear because ever member of command is dead, and no action taken.

    The current SOP does allow Enforcers to use judgement to board when "proper" channels don't yield an affirmative response, but coming to a decision under this clause is always both time-consuming and controversial. An SOP rewrite would allow Perseus to be a more efficient counter for obnoxious murderbonering. And it would be an IC counter that just appropriately makes murderbonering carry more risk as a strategy, which I believe is preferable to administrative action in this case.

    Before I became a member of Perseus I found it frustrating that Perseus always seemed to board and apprehend murderbonerers after the entire crew was already dead. Now, having been on the other side of these things, I can attest that there is often a lot of bureaucratic hoop-jumping and need to persuade non-responsive command staff before Perseus can do anything, and it really slows down response time when the need for intervention is obvious.
  7. Tharinoma

    Tharinoma LS13 Admin

    The only issue I have with murderboning is how traitors or lings delay the shuttle cal for no raisins.
    I would support a rule that says admins are allowed to force the shuttle to come when antags are murderboning too much and won't call it themselves.

    Otherwise, murderboning is part of the game. I like doing it and I don't mind other people doing it. As Flat pointed out, Perseus is here to deal with this kind of problem, or is supposed to.
    LeJack and NoFaceMan like this.
  8. Psyentific

    Psyentific Well-Known Member

    Take a page from Goonstation and implement Antag Points. Your antag chance is influenced by your antag points, and the points themselves can be awarded by admins or for specific in-game actions.

    As an example, if you murder Ian 4nr, that's minus a bucketload of antag points. But if you creatively grief the station (like building a singularity in cargo), you gain points. Rerouting disposals into an infinite loop? Points. Rerouting disposals to space and literally dunking everyone? Points. Creating and unleashing a Hellvirus? Points. Not using any telecrystals? Points. Greentexting? Point. Breaking out of Perma? Point.

    This allows specific behaviours and playstyles to be positively reinforced, without taking away the option (or adding penalties) to murder everyone.
  9. Tharinoma

    Tharinoma LS13 Admin

    I'm 10000% against anything that would influence one's chance to be an antag.
    The incentive to stop/reduce murderboning must be 100% IC.
    Giving OOC penalties to people that don't antag the way you want them to shifts us towards heavy RP and removes our precious Liberty.
    NoFaceMan and Flatoftheblade like this.
  10. LeJack

    LeJack Active Member

    And you end up with people clamoring for admin attention, for the precious points. And a system that would require heavy oversight, lest it be abused.
    NoFaceMan and Flatoftheblade like this.
  11. Jariahtoadsage

    Jariahtoadsage LS13 Admin

    I actually agree, the whole idea of this is to find a way to influence away from murderboning without forcing the issue. A difficult task but it looks like people are migrating to offer views and counterpoints here. But im not saying i dont appreciate any and all feedback that has and will be given.
  12. Psyentific

    Psyentific Well-Known Member

    So give them carrots for not being an assblast.
    Jariahtoadsage likes this.
  13. Jariahtoadsage

    Jariahtoadsage LS13 Admin

    Undeniably the thing that will reverse the problem! I applaud your insight!
  14. cheif264

    cheif264 LS13 Admin

    In my eyes it seems like murderboning has gone down a lot since I left and came back while its never fun to be dead for two hours because people decide to have a psycho moment and murder everyone I don't feel like its a big issue now a days
    I do have two separate suggestions though that may make people lean away from doing it.
    1. The shuttle could be automatically called when half of the crew or more are reported dead (shouldn't count braindead people though and shouldn't be able to be recalled)
    2. If all of the command staff are dead and sec staff are refusing to answer allow persceus to enter the station to investigate the problem and apprehend the killers if they discover that is the problem.
    Psyentific and NoFaceMan like this.
  15. Psyentific

    Psyentific Well-Known Member

    There's already a 25m shuttle timer in the event that all communications consoles are destroyed. Just add the "50% casualties" and/or "All command staff dead" to that list.
  16. AncientV25

    AncientV25 LS13 Admin

    wrong section

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