Space Law

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by RebelAmerica, Jul 3, 2014.

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  1. RebelAmerica

    RebelAmerica ForumGuard Staff Member

    Remember the new Space Law that was supposed to be coming around? Well, it's finally pretty much done. There is not a big difference in /tg/ Space Law and this one besides the times for crimes, but nevertheless it's here. This thread will serve as feedback/player opinion on it. Please, submit suggestions/changes, problems you see with it. This thread will stay open for two weeks, have fun debating.

    To see it, you'll have to download it since it's an HTML file and I don't believe there is a way I can upload the image/info to the site, it's not a big download anyhow, so not much of a problem.

    NoFaceMan and Infernus44 like this.
  2. TheJuicyFruit

    TheJuicyFruit Well-Known Member

    What of crimes such as workplace hazard? Is this no longer a crime?

    Also these times seem quite harsh. I also feel that Assault w/ Deadly Weapon and on an officer should be major crimes...

    EDIT: This may be a typo but under Deliberate Sabotage of Workplace, it says "but not deliberately malicious actions". Isn't that the point of deliberate sabotage?
  3. Magoca

    Magoca LS13 Admin Staff Member

    I would agree with placing those laws as major offences.

    The times do seem rather harsh, but in an environment such as this two minute sentences don't deter anyone from doing anything. This would likely prevent some of the petty crime we usually see about, providing the officers can actually arrest them first.
    Infernus44 likes this.
  4. Infernus44

    Infernus44 Well-Known Member

    I like the harsher sentences. Also, you can now actually permabrig rioters in the first go.
  5. Raptorblaze

    Raptorblaze Head Coder Staff Member

    I'm not entirely comfortable with ditching all but the minor version of tresspass. Also some names and descriptions need to be revised due to lack/change of other laws (see: B&E of a restricted area description)
    Analloveisbest likes this.
  6. Killerone2

    Killerone2 Active Member

    I'm going to assume that everyone is going to distrust the police and hide from them/more riots.

    Now buying tactical bacon.

    I was told to note this, 'In the event of a sentence exceeding the 10 minute limit of the timer inform the Warden so he may add the rest of the time later.'
    QuantumWings and Cody522 like this.
  7. LemonSoup

    LemonSoup LS13 Admin

    As mentioned above, this is mistyped.

    I'd be all for renaming this law back to "creating a workplace hazard" - I don't see the difference between "deliberate sabotage of workplace" and the existing major crime "sabotage". I think there should be accountability for people who do their jobs poorly, i.e. engineers failing to set up the engine plus all the stuff listed above, and so on, which can all be included in the medium crime "creating a workplace hazard" (can be renamed to your liking - something like "(gross) negligence"?)
    QuantumWings and Infernus44 like this.
  8. Cody522

    Cody522 Well-Known Member

    I like this one. "Deliberately causing an accident." wut
    Yeah it should be renamed.

    I agree @rillekone2 that these increased times won't solve anything but make the game more sucky for players.
  9. TheJuicyFruit

    TheJuicyFruit Well-Known Member

    If something is deliberately caused it's axiomatically NOT an accident right?
  10. Infernus44

    Infernus44 Well-Known Member

    Yes it will, more good officers will play and players will do less shit when they notice that they wont be 10 minutes in the jail for stealing the whole armory, assualting and looting every officer and heads. Riots are now capital crime, so you can perma them instantly, instead of giving them more chances to "get better".
  11. Mindtrixx

    Mindtrixx Well-Known Member


    5 Minutes for resisting arrest seems a bit insane. Often officers just slap it on your timer without really any reason. It also falls into a huge grey area and leaves it very much to the officer's discretion, and excuse me if I don't exactly trust all of the security officers on this server.


    This being a capital crime is also a bad idea. I can see how this plays out already, Traitor breaks into captain's or atmos, someone follows in curious of whats happening, gets accused and perma'd because "you were in there herp derp perma 4 u". No one ever does any investigating and if you are gonna have people being perma'd over a different form of trespass well..GG.
  12. Flavo

    Flavo Well-Known Member

    I think this needs a editing.. capital crimes don't start out at 5 minutes.
    Analloveisbest and Mindtrixx like this.
  13. -So the clown gets a 5 minute sentence for each piece of graffiti applied now?
    -As others have pointed out, the "crime" title and "description" for "deliberate sabotage of workplace" are directly contradictory.
    -The "riot" charge is extremely subjective for a capital crime and needs to be clarified more. This will be abused by bad sec players even more than the "mutiny" charge has been.
    -I already have expressed my concerns with the "mutiny" charge in TG Space Law, and that hasn't changed here.
    -The "B&E of a restricted area" charge is not clear and will lead to constant bickering. It says in the notes "As a major crime sentences start at 5 minutes, but can be extended if security believes break in was for attempted Grand Theft or attempted Grand Sabotage," but major crimes are not 5 minutes any more, even regular B&E has a 10 minute sentence, and it is listed in capital, there is nothing about a 5 minute sentence outside the notes.

    The longer sentences, contrary to reigning in grief, will just ensure that every round will see a grey tide taking over sec and forcibly demoting them. I'm sorry, but I'm not digging this (but hey, still better than that moronic and short-lived Yogstation Space Law where murder had a 10 minute sentence). The brig is going to be full of braindeads with half hour sentences and admins are going to be getting constant ahelps over the "shitcurity" that is, in fact, in accordance with the law.

    EDIT - Ninja'd by Flav on one of my points!
    Mindtrixx likes this.
  14. Cody522

    Cody522 Well-Known Member

    Isn't this what you guys wanted? Longer brig times?
    Because lol harsh security fixes shit
    Mindtrixx likes this.
  15. Tharinoma

    Tharinoma LS13 Admin

    I am totally against this, simply adding minutes to everything is not going to fix the problem. If we switch to this anyways, here are a few changes I think are necessary :

    -If resisting arrest is five minutes, admins need to make sure officers don't abuse it.

    -Theft, major theft and posession of a weapon are all ten minutes crimes, you can put them in a single "theft" category.

    -Deliberate Sabotage of a workplace : as suggested, fix it, is it deliberate or accidental? I think we should have "workplace hazard" as 5 minutes (slipping floors, accidents), and "sabotage" as 10 minutes (not accidents, but not as bad and dangerous as bombs or plasma, like breaking robotics machines).

    -Making "Rioting" a Capital crime is a bad idea, it will be abused. People will keep ahelping shitcurity and admins will spend a bunch of time on it. Just make it a 15 minutes crimes.

    -I think we should add "assault on officer" as either 15 minutes or capital.

    -B&E Restricted area shouldn't be a capital crime IMO. The crew often needs to break in these places to deal with traitors/lings/syndies/AIs/whatever and security will keep perma'ing them for it. There is already Grand theft to get rid of people endangering the station, I don't think someone that breaks in but doesn't steal anything should be taken out of the round.

    Overall, the station will either fall into anarchy in the first three minutes, or if we will need MUCH more holding cells. Slipping an officer and looting him now is :
    Assault(10) + Deliberate Sabotage of a workplace(10-slipping floors) + Posession of restricted weapon(15) + Theft(10) = 45 minutes in the brig = Perma.

    There is no way this is going to work, unless you want the server to take the path towards "medium RP".
  16. Mindtrixx

    Mindtrixx Well-Known Member

    If officers will abuse the resisting, they will abuse the shit out of the capital. Might as well make perma a hotel at that point.

    This is what I wanted. I want people to have more legit reasons to dick over people. Nothing super serious, just give some actual reasoning to what they are doing. Its a video game we're having fun ok! I get it, but we don't have to ramp it all to x10 because you got served a shit security sentence and we're in videogameland so "it won't matter that much anyways".

    The fact that people make the jump from SHIT TIMER?! - LET ME BLOW UP SECURITY!! is just silly, and the fact that its legit because its a IC reason "I was aboosed I wunt security 2 pay" makes it even more so ridiculous.

    I was happy to see the rule 10 reinforcement, but that is so lenient it didn't change anything. We don't need a new space law although its appreciated (lawyers might become useful if the clown gets sent to 30 minutes in jail for drawing!), we need more cracking down on griefers and their bullshit reasoning.
  17. The clown might as well not start with crayons now though. Who the hell wants to use them under this Space Law?
  18. Infernus44

    Infernus44 Well-Known Member

    But the problem is, this will NEVER happen, as admins said. This is the only option left. The dicks cannot be handled OOC-ly, so they can be handeled IC-ly now with the new space law. If you have a clown spewing bananas on the whole station, each departament, every room, he wont get more than 2 minutes by the current space law.

    Also, I think that vandalism for every window shouldn't be 5 minutes each. Maybe 5 for the first, and 1 minute for each other broken window and grille.
  19. Mindtrixx

    Mindtrixx Well-Known Member

    A clown who likes living dangerous.
  20. Flavo

    Flavo Well-Known Member

    I have the end all perfect solution

    Adding a modifier to the briging procedure, You should always make it your goal to arrest for things that will benefit the station's safety and security. arresting a clown for drawing butts on the ground isn't harming anyone. arresting a clown for taking someones pants is. aim to avoid arrests that wont benefit anyone and will just cause the criminal to be really angry and probably kick your ass later.
    Infernus44 likes this.
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