Discussion in 'Announcements' started by WellingtonTheThird, Jan 10, 2015.
If you spoke about heads of staff, I might agree with you. But station engineers?
Are'nt station engineers the most important jobs on board?
And if banning them is out of the picture, then anytime they sit there and blow off their job for not knowing how to set it up, they need to be 'encouraged' to learn to set up the sing.
If i see a engineer who doesn't know how to setup the engine, i am going to help them do it. A ban does not teach anyone how to play, it just gets rid of them. We do not and will not ever punish for not knowing how to do something. If someone is PURPOSEFULLY RELEASING the singularity or just cannot learn how to set it up and teachings aren't working than a restriction from those jobs are in order.
The rules are NOT a "If you break these you die" thing, they are simply a guideline on how to behave on the server.
If heads are a problem too, then the ones who have access (CE, HoP, Cap) as well
And yes, the station engineers need to learn to set up the sing
it isn't difficult, and it's a useful skill to know so you wont' get lynch mobbed
A ban on engineers for not knowing how to do their job is not going to happen. Period. Job-bans are reserved for people who abuse their position to grief or break the server's rules in general.
As Cactus said, if someone doesn't know how to perform the role of Engineer, they will either be taught, or directed to a guide on how to do the job. Simple as that.
However them choosing a job they don't know certainly has it's down sides
Maybe, just maybe if we white listed the server and prevent all newb players. Then we'll no longer have such crappy crews!
is not a bad idea
thats taking out the fact that we already have a low pop most of the day, and this won't fix that.
Of course I wasn't being serious.
But if only...
The issue with LLA in my time here has never been the ruleset, but admin interpretation/enforcement of said ruleset.
When I first started here (I can't believe it was almost a year ago), the server was an unplayable grief fest. Traitor code words would be stated over common comms, and crewmembers would be much more likely to take sides with antagonists than heads/security/anybody trying to stop obvious antagonists, for no logical or justifiable reason. I would play as security and instantly be kidnapped and stripped, and then have non-antags repeatedly tase me while antagonists beat me to death. I would play as a ling and people would mob, disarm and beat up people who attempted to stop me. Every single time I ahelped anything, the response was "IC issue." I'd get mobbed by half a dozen people attacking me and a traitor would deal the death blow and I'd be told "legit, antag killed you and nobody else knew they were antag." Myself and others voiced our frustrations on the forums, and I left for New Eden for a while.
Then, the admin team talked about how things would be reformed and borderline grief would be dealt with more. And for months, there *was* a significant change to my experience on the server. Security and head positions became reasonable to play and I played them frequently. I no longer won every antag round by default. Non-antags generally didn't cause more problems and tie up more sec and command resources more than legitimate antags anymore, and non-antags didn't side with me for no reason in combat when I was an obvious antag anymore.
Lately I've been seeing admins seemingly slip out of this practice, stop caring about borderline grief, and being excessively lenient about certain acts of outright grief. And this has seriously impacted the quality of the server again. There are once again a number of regulars who borderline grief every round and have a crew of metabuddies who help them spend entire rounds harassing anyone who fights back. Borderline grief, admins don't care about, and even in instances of clear and incontrovertible rule violations, I have to ahelp or file incident reports several times before anything aside from a "warning" is done, and admins act like I am inconveniencing them and being a dick for reporting such things.
This is my experience alone, at least. Not sure how more broadly applicable it is, but would love to hear how anyone else feels about whether things have improved or degraded over time. At no point have the rules been *substantially* changed, aside from more lip service being given to "borderline grief," and for a while this seemingly translating into how things are done. What I want to see is less a specific ruleset, and more of this talk about dealing with grief and borderline grief translating to action. It only takes a handful of terrible regulars to drastically reduce how enjoyable it is to play on the server
Being blunt, I really question the admin team's commitment to the issue of "borderline grief" when I see their responses and what posts they "like" whenever the subject of borderline grief comes up and unbelievably terrible players are called out. I feel that at this point, few administrators ever step foot in the server, so they couldn't care less about the integrity of said server. And the few that actually are active have delusional beliefs about "reforming" players that have never shown any intention to be anything but a blight. Time and again, admins show themselves to be excessively concerned about not "driving off" an awful player, and oblivious to the fact that having consistently horrible players around will impact LLA's ability to attract and retain good players.
You quoted me on something I said over a year and a half ago two rulesets ago. My apologies, but it is pretty invalid to our current situation.
It does however support a point I've been wanting to make..
We're here to discuss the rules. Much of the feedback we've received is about administrative enforcement of said rules. These are two separate issues and we need feedback on the rules themselves. This doesn't invalidate any of the points in this thread regarding them, but they belong elsewhere.
I believe Taicho has mentioned he was going to address this separately at well.
Currently no one is forced to set up the engi besides the CE by rule set and i don't see that ever changing the closes thing we can do is beat there fucking heads in strip them and lock them handcuffed to a chair in front of sec intill they have the "time" to arrest him.
Now if the CE aint doing his fucking job. Its not in there right now but im sure they can tweak it and add it in there but anyway.
Ban his ass if he aint doing his job cause if you dont know how to do it you should not be head.
Now back on topic. To the ones bitching about there still to free of a ruleset. No one is gonna take the fucking time to right down the 10 billion fucking examples of what to do and not to do in ss13 cause if they did they would have to rewrite said fucking 10 billion fucking examples cause something will get changed in a update.
Post yer feedback and stop shiting on tachico and wellington guys jesus fuck.
All my yes!
Speaking of banning Engineers, I also don't think that we should ban the people who didn't learn how to set it up, however, I saw more people who take the hardsuit and harass security from space by breaching permabrig, armory or the general office, then any other one.
Being a trial, I can't do much about that, but I do feel mostly the same way.
The first paragraph pretty much sums up exactly what happened to me.
The first time I was taught singularity I knew a little bit from gibbed, but didn't complete understand in till liberty. Although I've set the singularity up many times, even with years of experience, near the hundred theirs always the chance of fucking up, and imagine yourself new to the game joining the first time being given a deadly job not fully understanding it's mechanics. Personally I'd never learned how to set singularity by a wiki, only by the interaction of competent engineers and CE's (a shocker), and granted other server likely have singularity but not everyone sever does. With the engineering rule since it would punish good people for simple mistakes and not knowing the game in detail. Wiki is good information but not the best.
My greatest fear is that the Head and Security rule although believed to be a good rule by many, only harm the probability of good people taking the position afraid to fuck up or not wanting to be removed from the community/department they enjoy. This may or not be a case for anyone else but mine own.
Please let me steal your shoes, if you done the crime, you do the shoeless escape.
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