Killergryphyn's Perseus PMC Application [Declined]

Discussion in 'Perseus PMC Applications' started by Killergryphyn, Apr 3, 2015.

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  1. Tharinoma

    Tharinoma LS13 Admin

    "Rank clearly has importance in security, but it should not prevent you from following space law"
    I'm not sure I understand, the HoS was the one insisting that you would follow space law, you were the one "bending" it.

    "usually confiscate items that have been used in a crime"
    How were the items used in a crime?

    "I believe the HoS was the one who added petty theft to the list as I had no idea what he stole, but I trusted the HoS's judgement at the time."
    You kept asking the HoS to "let you deal with" the situation, and clearly told him you knew what you were doing. Then you just add petty theft to the timer, without knowing what the prisoner supposedly stole? The theft of insulated gloves was discussed by the prisoner and the HoS while you were processing Brick. This all sounds a little inconsistent. The HoS repeatedly asked you to lower the timer to five minutes, time corresponding to Major tresspass, the only crime Brick actually commited.

    "Let's use an example of criminal's intent; if a traitor had just cuffed a victim and bucklecuffed them to a bed and I find him holding a weapon over the victim who is still unharmed, I would charge them with attempted murder using my best judgement, recognizing that it was premeditated and not seemingly random. You do not just walk up to the maintenance door of the brig with hacking gear ready just to have a friendly chat, and I realized it was premeditated before hand."
    So if the clown wame up to HoP office and asked for all access because he wants to release the sing, you would stun him, cuff him and perma him?
    How could you be so sure Brick was about to hack in anywhere?
    If you catch an assistant breaking into RnD, do you charge him with sabotage because you think he wantes to destroy the research data?

    "Let's use an example of criminal's intent; if a traitor had just cuffed a victim and bucklecuffed them to a bed and I find him holding a weapon over the victim who is still unharmed, I would charge them with attempted murder using my best judgement, recognizing that it was premeditated and not seemingly random."
    What if it turns out the traitor is the one bucklecuffed to the bed, and the "criminal" just managed to disarm and cuff him, and as about to call for security?

    "Rank clearly has importance in security"
    What importance?

    "the law must be applied to everyone no matter of rank and position."
    Should the HoS have arrested you for theft of gloves then? Demoted you for brigging an assitant for crimes he didn't commit?
  2. Killergryphyn

    Killergryphyn Member

    #1: The HoS was clearly new to space law as I discovered as we talked more, and I knew that you had, again, attempted to commit a crime, which the HoS ignored when he put in your crimes.
    #2: Again, premeditated crime, I knew you were going to hack into brig, let's not tiptoe around that. So I took away your hacking tools to encourage you to not hack.
    #3: Once more, i did not add that crime, the HoS did, I most likely made a mistake in not removing it, but you did attempt to break into brig.
    #4: One situation features a traitor about to murder someone, another features a clown just being a clown, I know the difference between the situations. Answer me this, if I never was there, would have you hacked in? It seems so, as when I was there you took the barrier away and ran into brig, rather then going "Oh hey, just walking around".
    #5: Let's keep the theoretical situations theoretical please, I used an example and I didn't mean it to be twisted into "BUT WHAT IF THIS HAPPENED INSTEAD". I would also not just perma them off the bat, I would get the detective in there and scan evidence, interrogate them, and it would vary from there.
    #6: Rank represents authority, and authority can be a defining part in how security behaves that round. Rank can also define who you follow in a crisis, as it is generally better to follow the HoS rather than the detective for example. When making important decisions for perma and executions, you have to get permission from higher ranking personal to allow it to happen, otherwise it is an illegal sentence or execution.
  3. Tharinoma

    Tharinoma LS13 Admin

    I cannot support this application at this time, partly due to the response you gave to my questions, and your interpretation of space law, but most importantly due to my interactions with you in game.

    You recently left a security officer perma me for posession of a restricted weapon, that officer having clearly ignored space law before, without taking any action.

    I believe you need to change your view on how security should act and up your communication both with officers and prisoners.

    I will keep watching you, and I suggest you play HoS and officer more than warden.
  4. Killergryphyn

    Killergryphyn Member

    I kept telling the HoS in person to handle it, as I am not able to demote him, but apparently he didn't, sorry about that. I believe I answered your questions to the best of my abilities, but apparently not what you wanted to hear. I probably do need to return to just being regular security officer, much less complicated, most of the time.
  5. This is wrong and I need to address it, not to bring you down, but to try to help you with how to play security.

    You can't apply charges in some Philip K Dick "pre-crime" fashion. When people talk about "intent," they are not referring to what crimes an officer hypothetically believes that a suspect intends to commit in the future; they are referring to the underlying motivations for an offender to have committed a crime that they are known to have committed. Example: someone breaking into EVA to try to steal an RCD, versus breaking into EVA to try to obtain a space suit to deal with a malf AI.

    When you are arresting and brigging a suspect, ask yourself "does the evidence support, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the suspect is guilty of the crimes I am charging them with?" If you believe that that standard of evidence is met, further ask yourself "was it necessary for the offender to commit this crime to prevent some greater harm?" Doing the right thing means sometimes letting people who are probably guilty of a crime go free. That's the price you pay to avoid incarcerating innocent people.

    You shouldn't draw inferences about what a suspect was going to do, and then charge them as if they had, in fact, already done such a thing.
    Ridiamo, JPR, Killergryphyn and 2 others like this.
  6. Killergryphyn

    Killergryphyn Member

    Thanks, seems like so few people are willing to teach that I become arrogant and stubborn in my actions. I'll keep this in mind as I play, thanks once again.
    Ridiamo and General_Battier like this.
  7. Ridiamo

    Ridiamo Member

    You're a pretty good officer, I see you communicate and I see you respond to calls and make arrests, pretty much what the job mainly does.
    However, you appear to take Space Law very literal in many cases.
    EXAMPLE: One day I was playing with you as a fellow security officer. You brought someone into the brig and processed them, but you arrested them for flashing you (which I don't know how you got flashed being a security officer who spawns with anti-flash HUD glasses on) and put them in there for assault even though from my understanding they never actually tried to harm you, they were just fooling around. I know being flashed can be very annoying, especially if you are in the middle of doing something. But this rarely warrants a whole 2-minute arrest (I think he ended up being in there for around 4 minutes? I can't remember completely though).
    Read up on http://www.llagaming.net/forums/threads/how-to-be-goodcurity.2696/

    The 'learn to let things go' section is very important. Though someone may be breaking Space Law, it's not always necessary to throw them in the Brig and make them sit 2-4 minutes of their round out because they were screwing around.
    This is all easily fixable though, just a little change in attitude and to be a little more forgiving really. Aside from that keep up the good work!
    Killergryphyn likes this.
  8. Killergryphyn

    Killergryphyn Member

    Thanks man, but I know the round you are talking about (as we just had it), and he actually pushed me down and ran away, so I tend to take it seriously when they act like that just to be dicks. I don't think it was 4 mins, as I had only set him for regular assault, but with the processing time I wasn't sure. Thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of it and I will read up.
    Ridiamo likes this.
  9. Hattrick

    Hattrick Perseus Captain Staff Member

    Being wrong/mistaken is no barrier to becoming Perseus. I’m still here, for example.

    How we arrive at a decision (the reasoning and critical thinking process), how we execute it (in terms of how we interact with others and conduct ourselves) can illustrate aspects of our personality and character.

    When we have answers, we tend to stop looking for alternative explanations. In other words, if we know everything, we can’t be taught anything. There’s no room in Perseus for someone who is un-teachable. That’s what I like about your response to Flat’s post; you were ready to learn and take something away from what he brought to the table.

    Another consideration for us is how a person responds to frustration. What is their first instinct?



    We can’t control what other people do, but sometimes we can control our reactions. So a response like this could lead to potential concerns about fundamental aspects of your personality or character. Externalizing the responsibility for your attitude is not attractive in a candidate for any position. We’re looking for candidates who can get on board with the team and channel frustration in a productive direction, someone who can participate in building a team understanding and culture. What we’d want to avoid is hiring someone who will be a regular struggle to work with, especially if it comes down to something simple like communication or learning style.

    So I’m not saying we won’t hire you, because as I noted earlier, you seem like you’re getting ready to learn, and that’s exciting. Beyond that, others are seeing potential in you as well.

    So I’d like you to take three months to develop your sec play, and keep participating in the LLA community as a whole. We’re glad you’re playing with us, and we hope you find a home with us. After three months’ time, go ahead and post a reapplication with a link to this thread. Please also include three short paragraphs. The first would be your understanding three months from now, about what kind of a player you were now. What your attitude was, what your relationship with the community was like, stuff like that. Then, the second would be what you’ve been doing with/in LLA since then. Include anything you’ve been doing to learn or improve – for example taking a look at that goodcurity thread. The third paragraph would be where you talk about what you are like at the time of your reapplication. Include how you are different, etc. Make sense?

    If you’re interested, please contact me on skype and let’s talk about setting you up with a security mentor to work with.
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