Discussion in 'General' started by Flavo, Apr 16, 2015.
noir is a man in womens underwear.
He is something..
Im gonna go Mr slave on your ass and jump on you
He said otherwise, though.
I want to make emphasis on the "I trust Obadiah OOCly which has benefits ICly". So I don't know maybe some clarification on what you meant by this Snow?
Also considering this quote is 5 months old and I imagine it was and still is being enforced, what will come out of this thread? besides you know, refreshing people. Keeping in mind that since the tales incident more people have been open about their experience with Consistent relationships.
I don't want to make a big deal out of this, as I play once in a while, I just want to put my 2 cents on the matter and ask some things because this is actually what turned me down on playing on this server.
Why can't we all be friend IC, so no one expects anything when someone esplodes the entire station
No offense, but you do always yell "Blaaaaaaine" at start of round to hang out with that particular player and follow everywhere. Sort of like this:
On a round we spawned as Syndies and you immediately went (repeatedly) asking us if any of us was Blaine (that's how I knew it was you).
I don't see the problem with people hanging out with eachother in game roundly, I mean, this is a game, where we have.. Well, fun. And as long as they aren't giving eachother gear or assisting in antagy stuff, I don't think it is a problem..
The issue here is that there are two diffrent types of metabuddys.
1. Mayland / Sawyer / Ect who simply hang out fuck around in atmos and give 0 fucks when syindicates board the station because the crew have pissed them off.
2. Redacted/ Redacted and redacted who run around all the time with there " Possie " and face rape all but a "few" players if they fuck with them.
I see no issue with 1. I see and issue with 2.
Agreed with sawyer
You can look at it that way.
SS13 is a game in which your experience is directly determined by the people around you, so Isolating your gameplay to people you know OOCly means boring rounds for other people, the main reason of why places like Hippie station/Tg station/Goonstation have such high success and high population, boils down to the non-existance of metagroups of people that isolate the social aspect of the game to themselves, and because there are no metagroups, everyone feels welcome and equal to everyone else.
Because, let's be honest, in a situation where (AS AN EXAMPLE) Noir is the Captain and there is no HoP, I (as an assistant) apply for the job but so does Blaine (also an assistant), who do you think is going to get the job?
Although I'm not expecting the people here to change, atleast I can say my bits on why I think this is what's been somewhat lowering the population and perhaps get corrected on why I'm absolutely wrong.
EDITATION: The best metaphor I could think for this would be a house party with 6 people, 4 of them are friends, 2 of them are completely new to the neighbourhood. The 4 guys have fun and chat and play games and play tag, while the other 2 guys feel completely left out and ultimately end up leaving the party.
I hang out with blaine every round they're on yeah, I dont interfere if a legitimate arrest is on them, I would stop someone who randomly attacked them without good reason just as any other bystander would do for another though.
The syndicate thing I do believe you Ahelped at the time and I realized how stupid It was for me to do that , and it was a one time thing. (Yes, a mistake.)
Feels pretty bad that you think I would do this, yes I enjoy hanging out with blaine IC, but they get no favor or bias in decisions like this where I am involved.
I've been made acting captain by various opposers in this thread when playing as my responsible characters which is a tad ironic, considering what i did those rounds to become was to sit in my lawyer office. From what i heard I am not the only one who has gotten special treatment because I was "Me"
I see things are getting a tad personal on this thread, and accusations are being made of things that may or may not be truth and theoretical situations of what they might do in the future. If there is truly a issue of something we need to crack down on (IC advantages) folks should report it more because so far the only reports I've mostly seen are about players who hang out IC to RP. rarely do i see actual metabuddy reports.
I feel like I've advertised "Report things" on the forums way too much now but think about it this way in a totally unrelated situation. say there is a 24 hour period in in those 24 hours 4 hours are adminless, in that 4 hours there exists a bunch of players who just go around and kill people, also in that 4 hours you(generally speaking, not aimed at anyone) are the target of the grief. The only 4 hours you get to play are unfun because the same group is griefing, so you quit and they continue. no report, no ahelp, and noone is the wiser. My stance and crow's stance and pretty much how we admin here is in the OP, there are consistent friendships that don't interfere with the round and there is blatant metabuddying and people taking advantage of the friend system to powergame victory every time. Make reports of what you think is too far even if it might not be just so we have this on record to look over and deal with when it becomes a problem.
Hello, this is Knees, aka Emma Locke/Gravatt...(probably somebody that lots of people have problems with over my IC and OOC friendships with people)
I feel kinda scared to post my feelings and opinions and stuff but, I'll go ahead and do it anyways because, I'm hoping to like...make things feel ok again and not have people be upsets n stuff anymore. People are supposed to play games for what they see as fun, not to be upset at one another....y'know what I mean? So I hope my thingy helps a lil bit. And if you guys have like...further questions n stuff...I guess I can answer n talk about them if you want. (I apologize if this is kinda scattery, but I'm really nervous about saying all of this and how everybody will think and stuff....)
I don't play SS13 for the whole FIGHTING SYNDIES, KILLING PEOPLE, uh...stuff. (The most robust I ever was was probably killing aliens on meteor, but I am still pretty shitty at that and end up dying so I kinda gave up on that).
I play space to:
1) do my job (which is usually some sort of service thing because I find service fun, or some sort of minor job, I don't really go for anything too important because I play for fun, not for added stressy stuff...)
2) Act as a supporty person in case somebody dies or needs help or something and I can just do my thing to help (like cloning dead bodies with pods or cloning things or healing them with bruise packs and ointment that I smuggle through treasure hunting in maints)
3) Hang out with some really cool people IC and OOC (like for real...this community's pretty cool and filled with wonderful people that I'm really lucky to have become friends with IC and OOC. Like for real, my life feels a little less lonely so...thanks <3)
With that being said, I would like to reassure you guys that I don't/ nor do I want to use my friendships and all that stuff unfairly. I wouldn't use someones position or my friendship with them just to get free items or free access or whatever the likes, and I refuse stuff that I personally know would be too much (such as having a lazer gun to protect myself from a person who keeps breaking in or asking to inject the mime with virus because he stole a banana)... (besides I wouldn't know how to use half the stuff properly anyways, and even if I could I wouldn't. It's their stuff, not mine).
As for not interacting with everybody the same or not. I'd be happy to prevent it all and get to know you guys with everybody IC or OOC or both, really I would. But... I've just been kinda scared to with all the recent stuff happening and all the negativity that seems to come from just having friends in general because it seems as if certain bodies like to assume that people make friends just to give themselves an advantage. And here I am, feeling like a kid having a box of doughnuts and wanting to share the doughnuts but finding out that people hate doughnuts, are on diets, or have gluten allergies so here I am feeling bad for having doughnuts in the first place and hiding in the corner just so people don't get upset.
A while back, there was a thread I posted about the Perseus Jail, which I asked to be closed because I felt too guilty at the thought that somebody's rounds were ruined, and I blamed myself for alot of it.
I would like to clarify that I did not post it to show "OH HEY LOL XD WE SO BAD WE IN JAIL LOOKIT WHAT WE DID LOLELELEEL", I did it because I thought the note passing between the Smolletts and Lockes were kinda cute, and how everybody roleplayed being in jail (Wolfgang being grumpy, Kate killing people in virtual world, John going insane, and Emma playing with action figures and talking to the perseus people). Ever since then really, I've been keeping my IC interractions lower and to a minimum to a degree (which hasn't been making space too fun) and I even made a character that kind of avoids people and sits in maintenance growing flowers and making her own home in there.
I dont want people to think that I'm being mean or dickish and all that stuff IC or OOC. (Feel free to laugh at me for this but I stopped playing changeling and traitor stuff because I feel bad having to kill people)
Ever since what happened, I've been kind of scared of just...things like this happening again, people getting upset again, and all the like because I end up blaming myself way too much, even if I and others know it's not my fault.
and I feel like at this point I'm just rambling so...like I said before...I'd be happy to talk or clarify...or give my two cents (and I promise it won't be as long as this one)
I don't have a clue who in the hell half of Preston's IC friends are. Seriously.
I know that Raipizo plays Quinn, and Plaid plays...well, Plaid. That's pretty close to it.
Most of his other friends are all people that Preston knows and has formed a reputation with ICly. These are people that Preston has generally learned to trust more than others. It doesn't stop him from interacting with anyone else - however - Preston would probably be more willing to actually meet them in a dark room in maintenance if they asked. If some random bald assistant, however, tells Preston to "meet me in library maint," Preston would probably laugh and say, "fuck that," and if anyone would call that sort of suspicion of others "metabuddying" they need to rethink what spessmen is all about.
The whole point of spessmen being a multiplayer thing is so you can form IC bonds with people, not because it's a "friendship simulator," but rather, a backstabbing simulator. If you decide to meet someone in a dark corner, you should know full well that they could pull a revolver out at any second and end you. If you get a ling round, go for someone's ditzy wife so you can steal their identity and kill the husband, too. If you're a rev cargo tech and you know that blue-haired douchebag knows what to order, take the time to remove his sunglasses and convert him because he's useful to your cause. Antags are especially supposed to take advantage of IC relationships and use them as leverage.
I think a lot of us forget that we're not our characters. That's where metabuddying starts. Metabuddying isn't as simple as "forming an IC friendship," it's part metagaming, part becoming a xeno and not killing someone, it's special treatment where it wouldn't make IC sense. That's the biggest part. Finding out your friend has an emag? If you're smart enough not to ask any more questions, you can keep that friendship, keep your life, and keep your distance while they "run some errands." However, if you find out your friend has an emag, a revolver and walk in on him killing a dude - that should be where you draw the line and ask them what the fuck they're doing. And unless they have a seriously good excuse, run like hell and tell the HoS.
If I haven't made it clear enough yet, here's a few examples. IC friendship is marked with F, metabuddying is marked with M.
[F] Finding out your friend got captured/killed and searching for them with Sec.
[F] The HoP approving the QM to hold a taser after an incident with lings coming down the disposals.
[M] The HoP approving the QM to hold four eguns at round start for no reason at all.
[M] Helping your friend release the singularity when you're not a tater.
[F] Helping your friend release the singularity when you are a tater.
[F] Not asking questions about your friend having a pair of No-Slip Syndicate Shoes.
[M] Not asking questions about your friend having a pair of energy swords.
F is acceptable.
M is not.
I personally think it's very, very unrealistic to expect a person's reputation not to precede them. The entire point of a character like Preston is to take advantage of a large social circle, trying to gain the trust of as many people as possible in an effort to stay alive aboard a station crawling with xeno malflings. I'm personally very grateful that we don't force people to randomize names and appearances every round. You know what would happen then?
I, personally, wouldn't trust anybody. I'd become a total recluse in my department and not talk to a single person if I don't have to, because I wouldn't know who to trust.
The whole "we're closing off new people" thing has two points that are easily fixed.
- We need to make more of an effort to interact with new people.
- They need to make more of an effort to be likable. If someone's character is stoic, one-dimensional and entirely lacking charisma, I'm not going to interact with them because they're not fun.
My final point is this:
I'm very new here.
I didn't have any problem integrating Preston into the station's social circle within my first day.
There can't be too much of this "circlejerk metabuddy bullshit" going on, otherwise Preston would've been shrugged off and brushed aside and I would've left, because his character and his traits would've been useless.
Look, I'm firmly in the camp that believes that people shouldn't be expected to have no relationships or memory of prior shifts. I also believe that it's not reasonable to expect people to pretend not to notice that certain characters are far more mature, responsible, competent, trustworthy and reliable than others. Yes, there are characters I trust more than others, yes there are some characters I'm somewhat more willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to than others. I believe this is fine, and I've argued as much before. But, I don't think anyone is really arguing that this should be eliminated entirely and I do believe that the level of metabuddying that exists on the server has gone way too far.
Amusingly, examples immediately come to mind for me with pretty much everyone in this thread:
-Draden: IC, you've been useless and unhelpful to me literally every single time we've interacted, regardless of context and our job roles (including a time where you were a ling, others and I borged you and tried to get you to help us catch the remaining ling(s), and you played stupid and didn't provide us any info or help us in any way even though you had Asimov laws). Yet there are a number of people I am sure you regularly do help. I entirely believe that you would help someone like Blaine over someone like Keyword.
-Knees/Raptor/Battier/Eluxor: I don't think I even need to elaborate. Playing security on that round where I sent you all to the Mycenae for aiding and abetting each other was one of the most annoying rounds I have ever played.
-Brainos: I was murdered by two people right in front of you in cargo and you were like "uh...I'll pretend I didn't see anything, just leave me alone" and not only didn't fight (understandable from your RP perspective) but didn't even report the murder. I don't believe that you would have reacted that way if I was one of your friends. (BTW, when revived I said "fuck you, Preston, you coward!" but would like to clarify that the sentiment was purely IC)
-Cactus: As HoS and the last surviving head on a rev round, you ran off and attempted to clone mindtrixx (who was a dead sec officer) while I (another sec officer) screamed at you not to go and that the medbay was completely under rev control (something I had also reported earlier). You were instantly ganked and we lost. I know that you are too competent of a player to make a decision that stupid when you aren't emotionally compromised by the parties involved, and I know that you wouldn't have reacted the same way if I was killed and mindtrixx survived.
-Obadiah: As a sec officer, you not only permabrigged me, but also legcuffed me, for stealing a hand tele (within Space Law, but maximum harshness). By contrast, also as a sec officer, when I turned Kate Smollett over to you after she shot at me and my associates, you immediately said "I'm going to search you and then release you," uncuffed her and stood there while she shot me and my peers again.
Look, I actually like pretty much everyone I mentioned above. But it's still frustrating when, even for a veteran player, LLA can at times feel like some cliquey club that one isn't part of. And if you aren't part of these metabuddy groups, you simply are at a significant disadvantage in the current climate of the server. It does need to be cracked down on more than it currently is. There are so many assassination target options that will immediately make me groan because I know just from the name that they are only possible to succeed at through murderbonering.
If you try to arrest people like that, you have all their friends to contend with. Trust me, I've done it, and I'd rather take on a duel eswording traitor.
Idiots/assholes who hand out weapons and access tend to be very popular. The people trying to stop that from happening, not so much.
Not really a example so much as its just calling draden useless but making a guess that if it was anyone else but him the result would be differently. sounds like a personal problem
that issue was resolved, 2 were traitors, the other 2 were aiding and dealt with, you were fully aware they were dealt with. this blind assistances of friends is already something we look out for, report when it happens/keeps happening.
Once again, making a guess of how he would react. It isn't too far off for brainOS to avoid trouble/fights. so... not really an example just another guess that someone would do something. this example holds 0 weight and sounds like a personal problem.
I wanted to clone my warden who i wasnt able to save quick enough and felt guilty for his death in the first place. and another guess that i wouldn't do the same for you.
Was this all in the same round, did he just rocket from being super harsh to super lenient? given the provided context ill assume for examples sake that it was all the same round. I would probably suggest to oba that if hes going to to be a bit harsh/lenient to certain people he should remain consistent or at least base the decisions off of whats happening in the current round, not what they did in past rounds.
Story 2 is already dealt with and should be dealt with when reportedStory 5, wouldn't hurt to suggest consistency with leniency/base it off inround actions.
Story 1, 3, are a bit personal "what if it was me" situations and not really holding much weight, less weight on 3 entirely.
Story 4, i have never seen someone punished for trying to clone someone
Lets not talk examples/guesses/personalgripes for a second and talk policy, lets say the written quote in the OP is the server policy. what would you suggest be changed about it?
My point was to illustrate how rampant of an issue this is on the server. The fact that there are so many readily available examples to call people out demonstrates this. I also wasn't suggesting that anyone be punished; if I wanted that to happen, I'd have mentioned the anecdotes in adminless incident reports, not here. Obviously there is a different threshold of evidence required to prove something for admin intervention to take place, then to simply read between the lines as a matter of common sense. And obviously I explicitly mentioned that it was a belief (and not absolute certainty) on my part that some of the people I mentioned would have responded differently if certain other players were involved in the scenarios I brought up. You are rebutting a position I never took when you try to characterize these as "guesses" or "assumptions" (which they are on my part, but I think they are reasonable ones).
What I am saying is that even when there isn't outright and obvious metagaming, there is a lot of testing the limits of it and a lot of different treatment for different people.
(Also, just so inferences aren't drawn based on a lack of comment from me, the examples with Obie were two different rounds. And if you would have done the same for me as you did for mindtrixx, that would mean that you aren't a metabuddy but you do have horrible judgement as a HoS in general. I thought metabuddying was a more logical explanation for your conduct.)
Separate names with a comma.