Addressing "IC Issues" and Removing Rule Restrictions

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by WellingtonTheThird, Sep 17, 2014.

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  1. I've actually been confused myself for the entire half a year I've been here over whether killing confirmed antags is legitimate for sec and heads, since the rules also stated that they are held to a higher standard and expected to follow Space Law (and confirmed antag kills would only be legal under TG Space Law with cap's authorization unless they meet appropriate threat categories or there is a code red situation). This is an ambiguity in the rules that should be made more explicit.

    I have always played on the assumption that sec and heads (excluding cap/acting cap) could NOT summarily execute valids, but even if this is permissible I probably wouldn't change my playstyle for RP reasons and because I want to be satisfied I did everything on the up and up.
  2. RebelAmerica

    RebelAmerica ForumGuard Staff Member

    Antags are always fair game if they're confirmed, regardless if you're Security or Command staff. That said, you could be punished ICily by the Captain because of Space Law, but by server rules you're not doing anything wrong.
  3. daddysds1

    daddysds1 Well-Known Member

    Really I was secuirty once and PMed a admin if i could kill a antang as Secuirty was givin the OK. Soon as i did so Admins pmed about why i had killed him insted of following space law and tossing him in perma.

    QuantumWings likes this.
  4. Flavo

    Flavo Well-Known Member

    Clearly rebel just told you the ruling. and last time i checked, every admin was aware of this ruling.
  5. Thank you for the clarification.

    So, from an OOC/admin intervention perspective it's legit, from an IC/Space Law perspective, illegal.

    I think that's the best way of handling it. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing!
    Legato_frio likes this.
  6. Flavo

    Flavo Well-Known Member

    :), it's like i always say just because you can doesn't mean you should, i like how you handle antags anyway.
    Flatoftheblade likes this.
  7. daddysds1

    daddysds1 Well-Known Member

    The issue here is i belive i have a note on my account for this Shit.

    Kinda annoyed everytime I play the game something is wrong and if i come to the forms oh you can do it not issue.
  8. IMVader

    IMVader Well-Known Member

    Can't wait for all these rulings to be listed.
    daddysds1 likes this.
  9. Tcheverlika

    Tcheverlika Member

  10. Tcheverlika and Raptorblaze like this.
  11. Tcheverlika

    Tcheverlika Member

    Hi dude. :)
    Not really back, i'm still on TG, considering my options since they pretty much decided to nerf everything fun.

    I get what you're saying but, taking this specific case, if the policy we are talking about was applied back then, what would be the result ?
  12. Flavo

    Flavo Well-Known Member

    Likely what would happen is you would make a adminhelp/incident report. A admin would look into it and see if your round was ruined or otherwise unplayable (for example full strip + left in medbay) If we are talking about what would happen in that exact situation, intention would be looked into to why you were left in medbay naked and if the intention was indeed "this officer was being shitcurity while we were playing" i would probably try to find a resolution to alleviate your burden as you have taken the time to make a complaint about another players behavior in game. In that exact situation i would contact the 2 directly and come to a resolution where i could point them in a better direction of game play and at the same time attempt to bring you back into the round with your clothing and ID on your body. In most cases people are very ok with non-confrontational conversations and often they are not. An attempt would be made before action would be taken.

    Likely what would happen with you 3 is they would possibly see how they took the situation a bit far and return your things as well as me giving them advice (in the event they are listening and returning your stuff) to improve there gameplay for everyone else and them.

    To quote the FAQ above:
    Q: Does this mean players will be getting in trouble for things that aren't in the rules?
    A: Not necessarily. This would be an unfair way of conducting administration, but if we have talked to a player over something being an issue and the negative behavior persists then they will be held accountable for this.
    Jester5093 likes this.
  13. Jester5093

    Jester5093 Member

    I agree with Flavored, and don't think everyone in that situation should have been banned out of hand like some think I believe ;)
  14. Cody522

    Cody522 Well-Known Member

    Does this include "it's legit" and an immediate end of the conversation?
  15. Raptorblaze

    Raptorblaze Head Coder Staff Member

    "IC issue" means "This kind of thing isn't a violation of any rules, so I'm not acting"
    "It looks legit mate" means "I've investigated and found that the person in question met our requirements to take that action against you"

    In the circumstance you were ahelping that lead to this post, you were killed by a traitor who was trying to steal an identity and cover his ass since his identity as a traitor had been revealed.
  16. WellingtonTheThird

    WellingtonTheThird Well-Known Member

    Sometimes administrators have to be vague to keep from blowing people's covers as an antagonist. Saying "IC issue" doesn't really explain why it is an IC issue. "It's legit." means that they killed you in a legitimate manner whereas "On it." generally means the administrator is conducting a prolonged investigation into the matter as their actions were not legitimate. The administrators are urged to not inform you beyond "It's legit." or "Sorry, but it's legit." because saying "Sorry, but they're a changeling/Rev/Traitor" could make it unnecessarily harder on the traitor through information that wasn't attained through legitimate IC means.

    So when an antagonist kills someone, you ahelp, and an administrator replies "It's legit." it is indeed legitimate and if you feel that it still wasn't and you or they're covering themselves and admin-abusing or something and want further investigation you're free to bring it to the forums.
    Black Jack and Flatoftheblade like this.
  17. Cody522

    Cody522 Well-Known Member

    They both are basically the same. You can investigate something and say one of those.
    Both means it's valid within the rules.
  18. WellingtonTheThird

    WellingtonTheThird Well-Known Member

    Except it isn't the same..?

    IC issue was used in the following context:

    Clown slips someone. Person punches the clown. Clown ahelps. "It's an IC issue."

    "Legit" is used in the following context:

    Traitor kills someone. Player adminhelps they were killed. "Sorry, but it's legit."
    daddysds1 and Flatoftheblade like this.
  19. Legato_frio

    Legato_frio Public Relations

    To clarifiy even further on this. " This person was just going too far I will speak to them". Is how IC issues are now handled.
    Its legit bro " antag or action of a antag is what caused that to happen to you. "

    These are methods of resolving cases. Now we talk to people for boarderline grief in order to help prevent them from being punished in the future. By talking to people you can give friendly hints.
  20. Mabblies

    Mabblies Well-Known Member

    A small little tiny bit off topic, but does legit always equal antag or derivative of such?
    daddysds1 and Cody522 like this.
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